English and affects on object ball

[Shorty]

Anyone care to talk about how side english affects the object ball when struck at different speeds? I know this sounds like a newbie question, but I have some ideas about "throw" and "deflection" that are a little different than most peoples thoughts.

Comments or discussion?

Shorty

[acedotcom]

Originally Posted by Shorty

Anyone care to talk about how side english affects the object ball when struck at different speeds? I know this sounds like a newbie question, but I have some ideas about "throw" and "deflection" that are a little different than most peoples thoughts.

Comments or discussion?

Shorty

Okay, Shorty, I'll bite. I've been waiting for you to post your "different" ideas. I'm more or less conservative in my opinions - right english throws the ob left and left english throws the ob right. There are other variables to consider, like distance between the cb and ob, and speed. Another variable is the condition of the balls, clean or dirty, and the type of balls. I grew up playing with clay balls and I'm convinced I could throw them farther. I also believe that because of their lack of a glossy finish I could see them better, but that's another thread...

Now, hit me with your thoughts!

[A-Train]

Ummm, kind of a broad subject.

Gear effect is always in play, I use it largely to my advantage when frozen to or even near a rail. I don't know how many hundreds of times I've been off just a hair and had the object ball spin itself into the hole and save me.

I don't usually concern myself with throw on the object ball because I don't see it as an issue to my game. I guess I've never paid attention, but I will now. I have a Predator Z shaft that decreases deflection but I have noticed that I throw the ball a lot harder for some reason. Maybe it's my imagination.

After thinking a little bit I feel like it's probably almost impossible to throw an object ball far enough out of whack to miss a pocket under most normal circumstances. Some spin does transfer from the cue ball to the object ball but it seems to me that it wouldn't matter unless there was extreme english and you were slow rolling the entire length of the table. At that point I'd question also the consistency of the roll of the table (more often than not the issue in these parts).

Just my $.02

[Shorty]

This is what I was looking for...thanks guys.

I agree with Ace though as far as clean vs. dirty balls and cloth speed as well.

Based upon those factors, I can throw a ball pretty darn well with extreme left or right english.

Thanks for the discussion,
Shorty

[acedotcom]

Originally Posted by A-Train

I don't usually concern myself with throw on the object ball because I don't see it as an issue to my game. I guess I've never paid attention, but I will now. I have a Predator Z shaft that decreases deflection but I have noticed that I throw the ball a lot harder for some reason. Maybe it's my imagination.

I hope it's an issue to your game on those shots that you can't quite see, yet you can throw in if you sneak the cb past the obstructing ball with the proper spin. These shots can be game savers when they come up.

[A-Train]

Originally Posted by acedotcom

I hope it's an issue to your game on those shots that you can't quite see, yet you can throw in if you sneak the cb past the obstructing ball with the proper spin. These shots can be game savers when they come up.

I absolutely agree. I don't use that technique a whole lot because I feel as though it's lower percentage than kicking at a ball. On occasion I do use throw to my advantage. Of course, I always do my best to calculate it in.

[acedotcom]

Love your motto. Guess it's time for me to drop out of the "learn from my mistakes" derby and invent a new quote.

[A-Train]

Originally Posted by acedotcom

Love your motto. Guess it's time for me to drop out of the "learn from my mistakes" derby and invent a new quote.

I was hoping someone would pick up on it.

Good on you.

[tpdtom]

I'm just recently back to the game after a 25 year layoff. Squirt and deflection were totally new to me, as were jump/break cues, Simonis cloth, and laminated shafts such as Predators. Being an old straight pool player I had plenty of experience with "throw" as it applies to a single object ball or multiple balls though.

Other than on brand new cloth, but still playing on Simonis, I still notice throw when I load up the cue ball on a slow stroke. I can easily miss and jar the ball or hang it if I'm not careful. If I'm shooting a difficult cut, let's say 1/3 the table length, and I have to send it 2 1/2 ft - 4 ft to the pocket, and use extreme english for position, I not only have to compensate for the curve of the cue ball enroute to the object ball, but also for the throw effect on that ball's way to the pocket.

Playing one-pocket, you must always look for dead combinations out of the rack, and many of them will not go without throw, or are not even dead without throw. This is all learned in straight pool. Of course, in a tournament or for the cash you don't shoot these shots unless you're positive that they go, and again, you learn that in straight pool.

Simonis cloth really changed the game. A player has to be able to adjust to new and older cloth which we always had to, but also squirt and throw, AND the curve of the cue ball in the direction that the english is applied enroute to the object ball. Keeping it as simple as you can , and by that I mean striking the cue ball on it's verticle axis, is best, but we certainly must be able to accurately judge throw as well. It's a whole different effect that a player must master...Tom

[djkx1]

Tom,
I agree that there is a pretty big difference in throw on Simonis as opposed to the old nap cloth. The ability to adapt to these changes is what makes the game so tough. At least for people like me that adjust slowly to change.

Thanks for the input. I just got into playing some straight pool lately. My high run of 57 proves I'm a novice, but its an awesome game. 1P is cool too, but around these parts very few people play either. Any input/advice you have on these games is definitely welcomed in this Tips and Lessons forum.

[tpdtom]

Congrats on your 57 ! Mine was only 86 back in the day, but I can tell you that if you can run 57 an 86 is just around the corner. The best advice I can offer is to try to find better players to practice with. Good luck...Tom